Living with an angry and controlling partner can become a twisted world where bad is good, down is up, and wrong is right. Many women over the years have said to me, “My partner tells me that I’m the one abusing him. He has said it so many times that I start to wonder if he’s right. How do I know if it’s him or me?”
We can look at some ways to answer that question, but first I would like you to read a few concepts, taking a deep breath after each one so that you can absorb it.
One: You are not responsible for his behavior. You do not make him do things. His actions are his own choice.
Breathe.
Two: You deserve to be treated well even when you make mistakes, and even if you make them a lot.
Breathe.
Three: Setting firm, clear limits for how your partner is allowed to treat you is not the same thing as controlling him, and should not be called control.
Breathe.
Four: Choosing to not always put your partner’s needs ahead of your own does not constitute hurting him, wronging him, or being selfish. You have the right to give substantial priority to your own needs and desires.
Breathe.
Five: If you scream and yell once in a while that does not mean that you are crazy or abusive (though he may say so). It depends on whether you are yelling degrading things, whether your partner is intimidated by you, whether you are yelling to control him (versus yelling to resist his control), and many other factors.
Breathe.
These five concepts cover most of the situations where angry and controlling men try to turn the tables on their partners. If you work on digesting each point, he will have a much harder time convincing you that you are really the one with the problem.
But I haven’t really answered your question yet. You may still wonder, “But what if he really isn’t the destructive one, and I am? How would I know?” Here’s how:
* He’s kind to you most of the time, and he treats you reasonably decently even when he’s mad or upset with you.
* He takes responsibility for his own actions, not frequently blaming them on you or on stress or other excuses. And he doesn’t get scary.
* He has asked you repeatedly, and in a decent and thoughtful way (not in a stream of put-downs) to change specific behaviors of yours, and you seem to keep returning to doing those things he has asked you not to do.
* He has shown willingness to work on things you want him to work on, and has taken real steps regarding those issues (not just making promises).
If all of the above points are true then, okay, maybe you need to look at your treatment of him. But otherwise – and I’m willing to bet your situation falls into the “otherwise” category – your partner is doing what so many angry and controlling men do, which is turning things into their opposites in order to have even more weapons to hammer you with.
“I can be in a loving relationship with myself today, and trust my own wisdom and intuition. He is not going to sell me his view of what kind of person I am.”
I'm in the middle of reading why does he do that and it's like reading my daughters history with her ex husband. after 5 1/2 years he is still trying to abuse thru the court system. it is unbelievable how he manipulates counselors and court appointees.my grandchildren have had therapist for 5 years and they call him a sociopath. when my grandchildren speak to his counselor about their fathers behavior the counselor says its my daughter speaking. the ex is a master lier as we all (family and friends) have found out the hard way. his abuse was both verbal and physical. now aimed at the the kids (the girl is overweight (not) and the boy needs to get his six pack back, he's 10 )but still no one listens. even their therapist has reported to cps (4 times) he lies his way out of it by saying kids are lying,rough play,or his mother&brother will lie for him. how do you defend against such corosive behavior? why is it so much easier to believe that a woman is lying about abuse, than a man is capable of such abuse?
ReplyDeleteThank-you for this post. My eyes started to water as I read through this. The reminder to breath was helpful too. I have too wondered this same question. My mind is pretty sure I am ok and not doing the bad, the wrong but yet there are the constant twists that come form everywhere that make you still wonder. Especially when so often they get the kids (and anyone else that will listen) to believe them. Because they do this day in and day out they become so good at throwing things your way every chance they can your left in the dust still trying to figure out how to react to or fix the last incident. You become overwhelmed, tired, frustrated and you just want it to end.
ReplyDeleteLundy thankyou SO much for writing the book "Why does he do that?" I was in a very scary relationship and simply could not work out what was wrong, I spent all my time trying to 'fix' it, and got nowhere for obvious reasons. I read your book, and lightbulbs started popping off for me. I couldn't believe how you'd nailed this guy I was living with!! Anyway, long story short, myself and my 3 children are now out, as a direct result of the information in your book, and we are living very happily with the support of a lot of extended family. Thankyou from the bottom of my heart, and I have recommended your book to a lot of people.
ReplyDeleteLundy~
ReplyDeleteHelpful and exactly right. Harder to internalize, even after being out of the relationship for more than 5 years.
"He is not going to sell me his view of what kind of person I am.”
No, he's not. But the thing that still incenses me is that he is *still* able to sell his view of what kind of person I am (an angry woman, hard to live with, crazy, depressed, suicidal, needing to be rescued, messed up and in denial about it) to so many other people.
What, if anything, can be done (and I mean real, practical actions) about that?
Hello. I am "one of us." I notice he loves when I'm mad. Makes me look crazy. Then how come I live in a nice place, with two cars, two garages and two businesses? From that alone we can see I ain't stupid. And he can't hold a menial job and pay his bills?
DeleteI'm sorry, I know how you feel, but my first instinct is self-preservation. I want to prove I'm not what he says too. The cops believe me. I may be paranoid but they really are after me.
What I plan to do is use my pissed offedness to ACT. I'm calling every last lawyer, mayor, and newspaper reporter I can. And I have a BIG mouth. I have time and I have influential people who like me. GET MAD AND ACT. Tell your people. So they can see you DON'T deserve it. Talk to the cops and ask how you can help. Talk to your local shelter and put him OUT of your mind as many times as you need to. Get more educated in stuff you want to do. Start a group. Save money and learn to invest. I recall the meanest, nastiest thing he ever did that was unwarranted and remember that when I can't evict him from my head any other way! Mine threw dirty water in my face and his eyes were like a shark's as I cried and choked. It was appropo of nothing. I think about what I want my life to be, remember there are 6 billion, 999 thousand, 999 OTHER PEOPLE in the world. None of whom treat me that way EXCEPT HIM. I remember Lundy's story about the woman who wishes she could take back the years she gave him waiting for him to deal with his problems.
This blog was validating for me to read because in my relationship with the abuser, he would echo the comments that I made critiquing what was going on. So if I talked about what was bothering me, he would just echo back what I said and say I was doing just that to him. It was inititally very confusing, but then I realized that what he was doing confirmed the fact that he was an abuser. Because he was deliberately confusing me, deliberately refusing to work on the relationship, deliberately using this repetitive echo back approach as a way to control, as opposed to sincerely exploring the problems I raised. If there is any feature that reveals an abuser more clearly, it is this one. It's right on the top of the last. Thanks for clarifying this point, Luncy.
ReplyDeleteAgreed ! As the previous comments state, your observations fit perfectly with the abusive behaviors many of us have and still endure on a daily basis.
ReplyDeleteI also have told many others of your "Why Does He Do That " book and also of this blog which continues the helpful insight. As I have surfed around to various other links, I also came across another book that will be incredibly helpful to those who have a Bible believing background and therefore struggle with how to approach an abusive marriage in light of divorce. The truths in this book mirror what I had already discovered by viewing divorce from the totality of the Bible, instead of isolating individual scripture verses. My husband, upon my exiting the home, has gathered a group of 5 pastors to rally with him in saying that I am sinning and out of God's will. The opposite is actually the case, as I know I have been given the freedom to escape oppression for my family as well as myself, while at the same time remaining forgiving. The name of the book is "Divorce: God's Will?" by Stephen Gola. You can google his name.
After I had posted my last comment, Elizabeth's comment showed up. I just wanted to say, Elizabeth, that I have the same situation as you, and it continues even though we are separated and I will be filing for divorce. I am learning to expect that the tactics will remain the same and this knowledge ahead of each interaction is helping me to detach my soul from the shock value of his responses. Knowledge is liberating and healing.
ReplyDeleteIt's so nice to have a voice of reason and support out there in the world. Thank you!
ReplyDeleteThank you again Mr. Bancroft, for you one again have spoken to my fears and inner struggles. This question has kept me from going to any counselor. He has accused me so many times, and I am so very introspective and empathetic that I would question myself daily, even as he kept the abuse going. A couple of years ago, I spent a whole year and a couple thousand dollars with a psychologist, because he declared, in front of my 5 children, that I needed professional help, when I asked him why he is the only person to say this to me, he answered, "Oh there are others who think so, they just don't tell you.", which sent me into a downward spiral of paranoia and trusting no one. The psychologist, after a year, told me he doesn't even want to discuss emotional abuse, he felt it was all simply marital discord, and as soon as I become "less reactive" to his behaviors the better the marriage would be. Good-bye psychologist.
ReplyDeleteHis brother even sent me an e-mail stating that, "You wouldn't have the mental issues that you have if you would simply obey your husband." and our church leaders have rallied around him because of his "rebellious" wife.
I could go on and right a book about the subtlety that can take 21 years to uncover and believe, but I know you have already heard it all.
So I will just again say thank you! from the bottom of my heart, for helping me make sense of this life. And, if I can ever convince Dr. Phil or Dr. OZ or both to dedicate the whole month of October, in honor of Domestic Abuse Month, to this subject, I would GLADLY volunteer myself and all my turmoil to be examined as an example.
Thank you
ReplyDeleteSusan you might like to also read my book Not Under Bondage: Biblical Divorce for Abuse, Adultery and Desertion. I arrive at similar conclusions to Gola, but by a different route.
ReplyDeleteI'm a survivor myself, so I know what all the scripture twisting and false doctrine feels like.
And as for abusers who win allies in the church, they are RIFE all over the Christian world. I'm writing my next book which will include a section on Judges 19-21, which I believe is an archetypal case study of how an abuser wins allies and gets them to do his dirty work.
I have lots of stuff on my site for people who are addressing domestic abuse in a Christian context.
Thanks Lundy for another fabulous post. I hope you don't mind me mentioning my work on your blog. Do let me know if it bothers you.
As per the Anonimous comment above, I can so relate to the time when your husband told you that others "do" think you have a problem, they just don't say anything. My husband once told me that he and two of my friends had a "good ole' laugh about me, and were shaking their heads the whole time. He also said I was the laughing stock of the whole town. At the time it was a crushing blow to my heart, but looking back through educated eyes, I can laugh myself , because I don't even know that many people in this "whole town". I can easily see the exaggerations now.
ReplyDeleteAlso, Barbara, thank you for suggesting your book. I am always open to additional insight on the subject of abuse, and will check it out as well.
Thank you so much for this blog! Thank you! It made total sense
ReplyDeleteMy husband also made the claims that "everone" thinks I'm nuts/crazy/abusive/stupid/fat as well. And that's why they "defriended" me on facebook. Well after much introspection, his brother unfriended me on there, his mistress did, and one of his coworkers (who encouraged his affair). That's it. And later the mistress insisted to me that all our mutual friends knew she was a fine upstanding honorable woman and that I was crazy... and they slowly unfriended her and remained with me. What happened was I wasn't silent. Through the abuse I didn't always want to recognize what it was even though others were telling me nonstop. It took him leaving me and trying to continue controlling me through my kids and the courts and his extended family to realize how much what he was saying was NOT true. That I am not lazy, fat, stupid, abusive, that refusing to bow to his every whim before I even knew it existed wasn't me being those things, it was me standing up for me.
ReplyDeleteThank you ladies, I have to stay anonymous, but I am listed as REM...just in case he...well anyway. During the year with the psych. I reuested every test he could give me, spent 3 rs. on the waiting room floor answering a 700 question test, only to find out that I am normal but I have "low self-esteem and somewhat depressed". Then through a series of events I find out my husband was "sharing" my entire past--things I had confided in him when we were first married because I thought felt that as a couple there should be no secrets, I had already dealt with these events and never thought of them again in the past 20 yrs.-- with his family and especially his brother who is a D.O. in another state. He "diagnosed" me off-handedly as Borderline Personality Disorder! So after looking it up online and sobbing at the how the symptoms were nothing like me, I once again requested another test, and once again, I am nowhere close to BPD. So somewhat relieved, I let my husband know that I am not, to which he replies, "Well, we don't care what that doctor says, we know you are!" So I gather up quick courage to question him...
ReplyDelete"So who diagnosed me?"
"I ain't sayin'"
"It was your brother,right?"
"well, yeh."
"when did he test me?"
"he didn't have to"
"he comes up here once a year for 3-4 days, says hi and goodbye to me, and a few words in between, when did he test me?"
"I said he didn't have to."
"he's going on your words isn't he?'
"well, yeh I shared some things with him. How you go from here(low hand) to here(high hand)like that (snap)."
"have you read what BPD is?"
"no, but maybe I should!"
"I did, and I tested and I'm not anywhere near"
"well, we don't care what any doctor or test says, we know you are."...starts walking away...
"Do you know they commit people for that?"
Then he stops... turns around and looks at me... and with a smirky smile says, "really?"
It still makes me sick in my stomach.that look. that smile.Then the next day, the usual, he acts like nothing ever happened.
I used to be so strong, why can't I make my self believe all this? Intellectually I know I live this, but my heart doesn't to believe, I can't find the strength to break up my family, how did he get so far into my head? how can I find someone who understands like Mr. Bancroft to help me get him back out? Only one couselor ina 20 mile radius has even read his book. No one wants to acknowledge how insidious this is, and those that do are too far away...If only....
@ Barbara Roberts, thank you!, for a whole decade I tried to get help from my church, only to hear repeatedly that I "shouldn't 'bash' my husband" and "I should always obey him, then he wouldn't get angry." etc. etc.... and I did, with all my heart, I tried to be everything I thought he wanted, but time and time again, it wasn't enough...it was never enough.
I should stop now, as I said in the above post, I could write a book about the past two decades...
Dear Anonymous (REM),
DeleteWhat a sweet person you are for trying so hard to please him and still it is never enough. I did same - for 25 yrs! Finally it was our daughter's angry reactions in adolescence that started us into therapy for her, which lead to marriage counselling for us, and eventually my lightbulb went on. In our case we were blessed with excellent therapists (we got off on the right foot with a referral from her pediatrician, someone I trust and respect). I had to ask around but eventually found an excellent attorney too.
Whether it is borderline or some other kind of personality disorder, it seems clear that is part of HIS issue, and one of his defenses is to turn that around and blame you for what is in fact his behavior (I learned it's called projection). There are some good books on BPD, and I'd encourage you to look into that if you can (google Randi Kreger to find several).
My therapist explained that people with personality disorders think they are totally fine but drive everyone else crazy! From reading about it, it's my sense that people with PD's are stuck in adolescent ways of thinking. Often this has occurred from their own trauma when they grew up - just their misadjusted way of believing how the world works.
When I look back at my family's history, I can see this going back several generations. I believe it is a learned behavior, not genetic. My therapist has been so helpful. She told me in our first session that I wasn't crazy (she had info from both my daughter's therapist and the marriage counselor to go on). I see her responses as giving me the context about how the world works and how to treat people that my mother would have given me if only she had known.
People with PDs prey on enablers/codependants like us. We find our value in helping others - perfect setup for them. I've come a long way in learning to love myself for who 'I' am. It was really challenging to do at times but so worth it (not just for me - really important to be a role model for our kids, boys and girls alike!).
So, REM, don't see leaving as breaking up your family. See it as giving your children a new and better way to view life and live it (not to mention YOU!). My (now ex) husband was dealing our daughter with a terrible dose of alienation. She was a very angry teenager. Thank God she gradually saw through it and found her way to a healthy place beside me! She is now in college, happy, and doing well! I was a woman resigned to live a less than whole life. Now I'm happy too, and a very proud mom. And we're both ever so grateful that we've broken the chain of emotional abuse that had carried through the generations of our families before us. (btw, she likes Why Does He Do That too - found it very helpful with an abusive bf awhile back)
So, hang in there, REM! You're figuring him out and he sees his days of getting everything the way he wants are numbered if he can't keep you down. We're cheering for you, even if some of the people in your immediate surroundings can't see your wisdom and strength. Listen to your gut and follow your heart - they will help you find your way through it. Have faith in yourself (I do!). Do what gives you energy and keep on keepin' on!
With Much Love, Susan
Dear Anonymous (REM)
ReplyDeleteI want you to know that you are one of many thousands who have suffered doubly because their churches have gravely mishandled the issue domestic abuse. We are speaking up more and more, and the internet is our lifeline for support and sanity-saving by communicating with other survivors and people like Lundy who "get it" about domestic abuse.
Everyone has lightbulb moments as they wake up from the mind-numbing poison of abuse. It sounds like you have had many lightbulbs already, and are now searching for sustaining power and support to take action. I hope you are remembering to pat yourself on the back every now and then for how diligently your are persevering in seeking support. And remember, it won't be YOU 'breaking up the family' as you put it, it has been HIM who has done that, relentlessly, insidiously, for years. If you leave you will only be making public the reality that he has brought about.
I know that smirk you talk about. So does my lovely new (non-abusive) husband. He can recall his mother's violent partner making that smirk often.
Thank you Mr Bancroft for your blogs. They help immensely, I don't think you'll ever understand how much you help survivors of abuse.
ReplyDeleteMy husband was fairly verbally abusive. He used to say such mean and scathing things. My problem was that I did not want confrontation, therefore would let it go, I would tell myself that they were only immature words. But in fact they were building up inside me, and every 3/4 months, when he would continuously go on at me, I would blow. I would say such mean things to him too. I hated how I behaved, I feel it was not me. As well as him taking responsibility for his actions, I feel that I needed to take responsibility for mine. My reaction to his action was my responsibility.
Thank you once again for your valuable insights.
Rocklyn Clarke said...
ReplyDeleteI am the senior pastor of a church in the Boston area. I read "Why Does He Do That" almost a year ago and was greatly blessed by your insight into the problem of abuse and domestic violence. I especially appreciated the insight that domestic violence is more of a "thinking problem" than an "anger problem". Your book contains two very powerful illustrations of this concept that I find myself referring back to again and again:
In "Chapter 13: The Making Of An Abusive Man" (page 317) you present the parable of the "boy who grew up with a happy dream . . . that a beautiful piece of land out on the edge of town was in trust for him."
In "Chapter 14: The Process Of Change" (page 334) you present the parable of the man who cut down his neighbors' tree.
I have looked for the text of these two very powerful illustrations online, but have not been able to find them. Are they available on a web page anywhere? Is there any video available of you presenting these illustrations? If not, would you consider making them available online? I have used the second illustration in one of my sermons and I would find it very helpful to be able to link to an online version from our web site. Your book is already on our recommended reading list for abuse.
Sincerely,
Rocklyn E. Clarke Sr.
Senior Pastor
Life Church Boston
http://www.lifechurchboston.org/
Thank you Pastor Clarke! for acknowledging that EA exists! and especially for reading/offering Lundy's book! God bless you and I pray that Father would use you to open the eyes of all pastors everywhere! That no man can ever again use the Word of God as a hiding place and justification for his abusive behaviors.
DeleteREM
Dear Ps Rocklyn, Here is a link you may find really helpful.
Deletecryingoutforjustice.wordpress.com
The blog's authors are Pastor Jeff Crippen and Anna Wood, his colleague. They really "get it" about domestic abuse and are writing a book to help the church wake up.
I'm really impressed with everything I've read from them.
Hi Lundy,
ReplyDeleteI know you from the last retreat in November. But I'm scared to put up my name. I don't know how private it is. I have brain damage from my abuse if that rings a bell. My head hit something hard when I was thrown. I spent a month in hyperbarics and he's mad because I won't pay him over 11 grand to abuse me. I can't say what city I'm in but if you wanna beat the old lady, move to a big city. He was within three feet of me because the system does not care. I did not hear him, and I almost had a stroke. He slandered my name before fifty people. He's trying to let me know he won. He can get me whenever he wants. Does anyone know Michael Moore? We need a movie because this is a joke and a disgrace. I weigh 120 pounds; how do I MAKE a grown man slug me? Plus, I think humor will save us all. That retreat was the best money I ever spent. But rather than fool around online GET ACTIVE! Tell congressmen YOU OBJECT to abuse. Look at WI law. They ain't kidding. He stays locked up til trial. No court for six months. He HAS TO get treatment just for the accusation for a MINIMUM of two years. Btw, where do recovering batterers go to keep progress moving forward? It HAS TO be a lifelong thing. I don't eat or sleep because he can now come and get me anytime. And I know he'll start once I'm off guard. Why? Because that's what he DOES! Why the hell does he think I'm so furious and terrified of him?
I am going to copy this list and keep it in my wallet. I left my ex five years ago, but we have children together, and he still gets into my head sometimes. The problem is that my mother tells me the same things, and so did my first husband. They tell me that I'm controlling and abusive and a bully. It's funny because I spent my whole life trying to understand how I could be those things and not see it. I am fair and kind to the extreme. I always put others first. In fact, I spend a lot of time catering to my mother's every whim, and it's never enough. She puts me down constantly, tells me I'm a bad mother and critisizes everything I do, unless it's her idea. She believes that it is her role to "protect" my children from me??! She says that I am mean to her and never loved her. She is mostly cruel and bullying, but she also uses guilt and manipulation. She calls me several times a day to make me feel guilty for something. Often something I did when I was 15. If I get upset (or disagree), she cries and acts like a martyr. She tells me that she can never forgive me for allowing myself to be abused (which possibly meant I was less available for her to control). My ex and my mom always hated eachother -- they were competing over who controlled me!I used to feel like I was literally being pulled apart!
ReplyDeleteIt eats me up alive that my mom is so sad, and nothing I do helps her. I have felt that way for as long as I can remember. So, it's hard to remember that I am not a terrible person when my ex tells me how I was the abusive, controlling one, and how he only wants what's best for me and the children. He seems so hurt, it makes me feel terrible.
I have no support system, my only family are my mom and my children. My ex manipulated me (through acting hurt and abandoned at first and just plain bullying later) into losing contact with my many, supportive friends - who unlike my ex and my mom, seemed to actually like me.
Thank you for "Why Does He Do That?" That was my turning point. That was what helped me to finally make sense of it all and begin to stop blaming myself.
Dear Anonymous (just above)
ReplyDeleteSounds like your mum is a genuine abuser of the emotional variety. She's guilted you big time, hasn't she. But you are seeing through it.
Isn't it amazing how we can see it clearly with our heads, but still be traumatized by it when it strikes our hearts?
To Barbara,
ReplyDeleteYes, that is exactly how it is. It's hard because, of course I love my mom. I was afraid to post this because I thought that everyone would think that I was just an ungrateful daughter. Thanks for the support : )
Thank you, Lundy, for this and everything. I am halfway through reading "Why Does He Do That?" and my husband is a cross between the water torturer, the demand man and (mostly) the drill sargeant. He also could be diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder, but he will never seek therapy.
ReplyDeleteI very frequently get told that I am overreacting if I get upset at all, over anything, no matter how major what he did. I get told almost weekly to remember that crying is blackmail, and blackmail is abuse. I also get told that "if his yelling is abuse, then so is mine, and I'm the one choosing to give our 3 children TWO abusive parents" and that I have to get my act together because we can't both act like that. He of course only admits to acting "like that" immediately after I call him on it, and remind him that what I do pales in comaprison to his own behaviour.
At any rate, thank you Mr Bancroft. I have a hard time grasping the fact that there are men in this world that think like you. Thank you, because as I am sure you get told often, I believe your book has possibly saved my life.
Your insight into abuse is a powerful gift. After ten years of a relationship including over seven years being married, I have left the relationship. It is hard to grasp when you are in the middle of the 'war' that so much of this behavior is on purpose and that someone that is suppose to care about you just keeps abusing. Abuse is a choice.
ReplyDeleteYou can waste many years of a precious life by trying to 'figure' out the root cause and trying to help him find his way, while you are losing yours. 'Why Does He Do That' was instrumental in my education about the attitude that was behind his behavior, I was never responsible....only blamed. I am glad to be rid of him. Now it is time to put the focus back on my life. Thank you.